Radio Interview: “A delicate and respectful approach […] to this issue”

The cast of Cottagers and Indians, Dean Smith and Karen Henkel, recently had the chance to speak with York Bell-Smith. Have a listen!

Transcript

York Bell-Smith:

And we are joined now by Karen Henkel and Dean Smith to talk about cottages and Indians. It opens up September 15th at the Firehouse Theatre. Dean, Karen, welcome. Thank you very much for taking the time to come in this morning and have this chat. This sounds truly fascinating and very timely. Right now, Dean, let me get you to take us through the basic synopsis of “Cottagers and Indians”.

Dean Smith:

Well, aaniin, boozhoo, kwe, York, it is great to be here. Thank you very much for having us here. So this is a play written by a member of Curve Lake First Nation, Drew Hayden Taylor. And it talks about, I guess primarily that focus is the conflict that out here locally, people might know about Pigeon Lake and having to do with manoomin or wild rice. And wild rice, so even that term, even translation is not a simple one because Elder Shirley Williams has pointed out that there’s nothing, we don’t call the rice wild, but there’s that translation. So there’s this colonising atmosphere already just looking at the language. And I think the mastery of the play is where Drew has been able to, I think, and Karen can certainly speak to it from her role as Maureen, I play Arthur Copper, who’s the First Nations man involved with the manoomin gathering and processing, how both, there are at least two sides to the story. And I think he has done a very delicate and respectful, or given a very respectful approach to how people can come in, especially if it’s an introduction to this issue. But for those people that are involved in it, and I have a lot of friends that have been involved, certainly on the protection of the manoomin side. And I think it offers that opportunity for people to come in and listen, learn, reflect, and not be so quick to pass judgement, I think on either side.

York Bell-Smith:

Karen, you were telling me before we came to air, you spent a lot of your childhood in Manitoulin Island. – Yes, I did. – Talk to us a little bit about that experience and your memories from there and how you bring that to playing Maureen Poole in this play.

Karen Henkel:

Okay. Well, very much like Maureen Poole, I grew up in Sudbury, Ontario and very much like her character attests to, I did see native people, they were a part of my community, but not really a part of my community. And my father who fell in love with Manitoulin Island when I was actually before I was born, would bring us up there every single summer our whole life. And we spent from the time school was out till the time we went back to school on the island. And I can remember as a child driving through this beautiful place that I grew to love so much and seeing the native indigenous people and where they were living and having so many questions about “why”. Why was I seeing what I was seeing and why were these people only in these certain spots? And how come it was so different than when I would, let’s say, go to a powwow on a weekend.

And I would see these fabulous costumes and these glorious dances and these proud, strong people. And yet there was the other side that there was this other thing going on that I didn’t really understand. Now, having been educated from the sixties and seventies and forward, why did I not understand what I was seeing? It was because the first Native people had been written out of our history in Canada, which is absolutely diabolical when you think of it because lots of the things that I was experiencing, let’s say at the powwows were these beautiful traditions and dances. And then what I was observing in other places was this neglected people and I just couldn’t put it together. So this particular play Dean gives many history lessons in it, many teachings, and I now understand all of the things that I’ve been missing. I was robbed as a Canadian of this beautiful First Nation people because I was never taught about them. I was never encouraged to join with them and invite them in and be invited in, which I think is a travesty in Canada.

York Bell-Smith:

And Dean, let me ask you about this. Going forward, what are people going to take away from seeing this? I mean, just from reading the synopsis of what I’m seeing in front of me, it’s something that is going to open up the mind to wanting to learn more.

Dean Smith:

We hope!

York Bell-Smith:

Right?

Dean Smith:

Well, yeah. So it is coming into it with an open heart and an open mind. I think definitely there are going to be people polarised. And again, here’s that opportunity to come in if you’re ready to learn, which is the first step of being an ally. I’ve been in the education game for a while, and I can tell you one of the differences with this topic area between adults and young adults and children is that young adults and children haven’t wrapped themselves around in this blanket of Canadian identity. And where it’s so precious, it can’t be challenged. Adults, they will react immediately and for a wide range of reasons. And no one likes to think that they don’t know or that they’re ignorant. But if you haven’t come to this topic before and your depth of knowledge is shallow, then it’s an opportunity for learning.

And so again, I think attending to play with that open mind and that frame is very important. It’s those first steps to allyship. And again, allyship is about coming in and listening, keeping the mouth closed. And that’s very hard for people that are brought up in a western system where you look at social media, where we are encouraged to share our opinion and then we judge other people’s opinions. So that’s the system we’re coming up in. So again, to come to bring in more of an indigenous pedagogy or a red pedagogy, it’s recognising that we are human beings, we are equal. And there’s many other teachings involved that are touched on in the play about how to treat each other. And it’s not about when things are convenient or when things are easy to resolve. The real test is when it’s hard and you’re challenging for non-indigenous people, a lifetime of not knowing. Terminology is important. Who do you listen to? Are the sources vetted? Critical thinking is key. And again, I don’t use this word “reconciliation” very often because I believe we’re still in the truth part. And my encouragement for people coming out that want to learn would be then to take those next steps afterwards. Curve Lake First Nation is having their powwow next weekend. Powwows are open to the general public.

York Bell-Smith:

Yes, I was just at the Tyendinaga powwow a couple of weeks back. And let me tell you, the regalia is just mind blowing. And the openness and the acceptance and the willingness to explain to those that wanted to listen was evidence. It’s giving me goosebumps now.

Dean Smith:

And Alderville First Nation and Hiawatha First Nation, their powwows have already happened. But again, for people, it doesn’t have to be tomorrow that they do something. Put it on your calendars for next year. And on the 23rd, there is a wild rice festival, Mnoominkewin, and people can go online to take a look and go to Curve Lake First Nation on Facebook or their band website and take a look and see that information there because you’re asked to register. So again, it’s one of those things recognising I’ve been a guest, an uninvited guest and visitor on Michi Saagiig territory for over 30 years now. And again, I think that’s an important mental paradigm for people to recognise that whose territory are you on and understanding that history and how does that history unfold into today? And with ongoing challenges. Because it’s not too late if people want to make a difference. It has to be personal though. They have to do that personal heavy lifting themselves. And again, it’s been my experience professionally and personally with all things that fall under reconciliation, that it’s indigenous people still doing the heavy lifting. And that’s another rich topic of conversation that we could have. But here’s an opportunity for people to do their own lifting, to take personal responsibility.

York Bell-Smith:

I want to keep that conversation going, but your chance to start starts on September the 15th. “Cottagers and Indians” opens at the [Firehall] Theatre runs through [October] 1st. Strongly encourage you getting your tickets for this. Dean, Karen, I want to thank you very much for coming in. Dean, I want to continue this conversation, especially as we get closer to the end of the month. You talk about listening and a day to listen is coming up on the 30th. I’d love to have an opportunity to talk to you about that.

Dean Smith:

And let’s do it all year long, man, not just September 30th.

York Bell-Smith:

Absolutely. Absolutely. Very good point. Thank you guys so much.

Dean Smith:

Thank you. 

Karen Henkel:

Thank you so much.